I see this ad everywhere.Personally I am sick of it! If the person or .45 school that runs it,will stand in front of my Ruger P-89 shooting cor-bons and I don't get a Kill on you at 15-20 yds I will give up 9-mm's forever!Last I checked the numbers .22lr and .38spl rnd nse ld had killed more people than any other round.And neither is thought to be a Manstopper.
China
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Good Bye Mrs. Yukon
2 years ago
When I was getting my wife her Walter CA P-22 a guy next to me asked me if I was going bug hunting, because that gun wouldn't kill a fly. He and his friend with him got a short laugh out of his statement untill I asked him if I could shoot him with it. Then my wife said, "With one in the pipe and ten in the clip I feel safe."
ReplyDeleteI hate the .45 is the only defense handgun group. I love my Glock 19 9mm and my S&W 5 shot 38 spl. and that Walter CA P-22. I think they all are manstoppers.
Pete I am with ya Bro.I have a .38 lite weight a gift from one of my boys.I think the best gun there is,is the one you have with ya.The .38 rnd nse lead is suppoesed to be very ineffective round I guess no one told all the people killed by it!
ReplyDeleteChina
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Classic case of over compensating bore size attempting to masquerade as skill... hey I like that.... Some day, some year, people will understand that it is the skill behind the weapon and not the weapon.....Evening all
ReplyDeleteNow Ya know I agree with you guys most all the time but here I gotta beg to differ.
ReplyDeleteFor over 25 years I've hand-loaded about every handgun caliber you can imagine.
To test various custom loads for maximum performance (penetration and expansion) I'd use soaking wet Chicago phone books (would pick up the outdated ones free for nothin'). Wetted they very much simulate the body and flesh. They were an excellent performance gage in that you'd simply examine how many pages it penetrated and measure the width of the hole from entry to last page damaged. With some Magnums I'd have to use two books.
I consider us brothers against tyranny so I say this in your best interests , "If you guys feel these pea shooters are gonna stop an enraged 200# guy on an adrenalin rush ( wearing a heavy jacket?) you WILL be DEAD wrong"!
Sure he may die from his wounds but I'd rather watch him do that from a distance before he's got his hands on my throat.
For me, if a handgun caliber doesn't start with a .4 or end in magnum then you're just pissin' off the bad guy!
Just my (well studied) 2 cents..
China,
ReplyDeleteI just have to comment to Scott here.
"skill behind the weapon and not the weapon"?
Never been in firefight have ya Scott?
Your're talkin' target shootin' here buddy and not when the target's shootin' back at ya!
When it's "in your face" it's fire at mass (chest) and a pop gun won't stop that action.
I'll take recoil over defeat any day..
Northwoods,it seems you are talking .41 or .44 magnum.Both heavy fire power,no argument.My bitch is schools that still preach .45 auto is one shot stopper.In a lot of cases not true.9mm usually penetrates better in my experience..45 does throw a heavier slug.But the myths that surround this round are incredible.hit a man anywhere on his body and it will drop him.Etc,etc.I don't handload.I do shoot a lot.I didn't say 9mm is best weapon available.I did say I am tired of .45 acp bullshit.Good round but not the end all.My personal favorite is .357 mag,but for folks who don't shoot a lot 9mm is a good choice in my opinion. I stand by my comment of the best gun is the one you have on you.Meaning .22 in your pocket better than .44 in your drawer.Your comments are appreciated Thanks Bro nothing like experience.I will start another debate.I agree with Jeff Cooper your pistol is only a device to get ya back to your Rifle! Thoughts?
ReplyDeleteChina
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Northwoods, No I have never been in combat and hopefully I never have to but I will stand by my statement of skill with the weapon you have. Are there some caliber's that are better than others? yes, but what good is a hand cannon if you do not hit anything vital. Shooting what your comfortable with. There will always be pluses and minuses with any caliber.
ReplyDeleteI shoot a lot, just about every week. And my wife goes with me about 75% of the time. I like my .38 spl and my Glock 19 in 9mm. But at home when I hear that knock in the night or the dog alerts me to someone of something I go for my Rem 870 with 00 buck in it. But I would like to think that if I was out and about with my five shot S&W .38slp and I keep two speed loaders with me so thats 15 shots, but I think I can bring down a 250 lbs nut on drugs. Have I ever done this no, but I do think I have the shooting skills to do it, yes I do. My thinking is five to the chest and it over. But you bet I would be loading that first speed loader just in case, because as the fool gets to within 15 feet of me then the head shot comes into play.
ReplyDeleteWell, well , we have us an old fashioned match of the experience here . I HAVE been in a firefight. I have NEVER used a pistol in a firefight.
ReplyDeleteI believe an old Jarhead told me once that "THE ONLY TIME YOU USE YOUR SIDEARM IS TO GET BACK TO YOUR RIFLE, WHICH YOU NEVER SHOULD HAVE LEFT IN THE FIRST PLACE" (there was some sort of grunt or Semper Fi following)
I was an Airborne Ranger for 9 years and as I said, never used a handgun for anything more then to hold maps down in the wind. Gentlemen , I can only pray that my enemy are firing on me with handguns cause I'll be way out of their range with my .338 lapua mag "rifle" .
The U.S.M.C. has it right "THIS IS MY RIFLE". Nothing personal but, I will ALWAYS have a rifle with me during times of combat, strife or any other collapse, I suggest you all do the same. Just MY 2 cents.
Have a nice day gentlemen
R3volution
III AFFA
Fellas,I think I shall follow our late buddy 3%4 Freedom's advice! If I know I am walking in to trouble I will have my Mini or Ak in my hands and my Mossberg slung on my shoulder! Or vise versa!And my P-89 on my hip my airweight .38 in back pocket my keltec pf-9 in the other.All good comments. Thanks! ps my pf-9 go's everywhere I do.
ReplyDeleteChina
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Just for the record the Experts who reviewed the Dade county shoot out,cops 9mm,.38's,357's etc.Bad guys mini-14 wreaked havoc.If you are not familiar lokk it up.Anyway the experts pretty much back up what R3V is saying nothing fired from the hand is 100% effective.But I think something is better than nothing!
ReplyDeleteChina
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I agree en total, China , anything is much better then nothing . If your enemy is wearing body armor, why risk pissing him off with something that does not penetrate the armor ?
ReplyDeleteRemember , a rifle round will almost always penetrate body armor at close to medium range . A thug on the street , no armor , any weapon will do the job , armored assailants should be met with maximum effective RIFLE rounds.
Also, a 12 gauge slug WILL demolish 98% of the body armor being used today . It is an absolutely devastating weapon to have at your disposal. Any armor the slug doesn't demolish, the recipient will be 100% out of the fight after being hit with said slug.
Keep up the great posts China , I love coming here still ;)
R3volution
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Thanks R3V.
ReplyDeleteChina
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9mm suck just pisses the bad guy off!
ReplyDeleteOh yeah? You wanna explain to me then why military and police use it? Do you think they're just a bunch of retards with good looking uniforms? No way. The military knows exactly how to kill a man. And for the record, the 9mm round was invented with more velocity in hopes that it would punch through bullet proof vests that the .45 couldn't do anything about. Guess what? It worked! I love the .45, as I am your average 1911 fanatic, but while the .45 holds more brute strength than the 9mm could ever achieve, the 9mm knocks down with velocity rather than size. Just ask any soldier, cop, or other professional in firearms.
DeleteI had my M4 (5.56) and M9 Berretta(9mm)in Afghanistan. That 9mm did just fine in CQC clearing qalat mudhouses. Feel free to stand in front of the 9mm with a vest on and see if the knock down velocity still just pisses you off
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